Beth Stallwood 00:00:00 - 00:01:59
Welcome to the Workjoy Jam podcast. I am your host, Beth Stallwood, and today I am joined by the lovely Clare Winter. Now, I will let Claire tell you her own story in her own words, but so interesting to think about her moments in time, in roles and jobs where maybe the joy has run out and maybe you've been in that situation. I know many, many people have, and you don't know what to do. But I don't know many people who, like Claire, got to that point and then decided to train as a Nordic walking instructor. Until today, I didn't know what a Nordic walking instructor was, let alone Nordic walking. So I have learned many things in our conversation today around the power of nature and creativity in whatever it is that we do, whatever jobs we do. How refreshing, how reinvigorating, how powerful those things can be. I really hope you enjoy this episode.

Welcome to the WorkJoy Jam podcast. I am delighted today to be joined by Claire Winter, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. But rather than me introduce Claire, I'm going to hand over to you, tell us about little bit about you, who you are, what you do, and maybe a little bit about how you came to do what you do.

Claire Winter 00:02:01 - 00:02:02
No pressure there then.

Beth Stallwood 00:02:03 - 00:02:04
No, none at all.

Claire Winter 00:02:04 - 00:02:39
None. Never. Never. No. Thank you for having me, Beth. It's really exciting to be here. I do a few things. I'm one of those classic entrepreneurs that has done many things and at the moment, I do two things. But the one I'd like to talk to you about today is the Creatrix journey, which is walking and creative writing experiences. So I run retreats, online courses, workshops, and corporate experiences for people. And in my other job, I run a podcast production agency.

Beth Stallwood 00:02:39 - 00:02:42
And you're on a podcast today. How exciting. I love it.

Claire Winter 00:02:42 - 00:02:44
Exactly. And walking my talk.

Beth Stallwood 00:02:44 - 00:03:23
Yes, walking the talk, being part of it. It's so interesting. Creatrix, number one, love the name. Number two, I love writing when I get around to it, when I give myself space to do it, and I love a good walk. So I am very excited to hear more about what this thing is and how it can help us all thinking about the work joy that we have in our lives. But before we do, you talked about being a classic entrepreneur and lots of different things. And I like to call it being multi passionate about different things. How did you come to be the person that leads Creatrix and leads a podcast production company?

Claire Winter 00:03:23 - 00:03:48
Yeah, that's a really good question. So I'm a former journalist. I started my career at ITN. I've worked in radio, I've worked in TV, and then I bought my own business, which was a magazine called Families, which I ran for eight years. And the reason why is because I started a family and funnily enough, working in TV didn't really fit with having three kids under five.

Beth Stallwood 00:03:49 - 00:03:52
Yeah, three kids under five. That's quite a mission.

Claire Winter 00:03:52 - 00:03:59
So I had twins and a four year old when I started my first business.

Beth Stallwood 00:03:59 - 00:04:24
Wow. Okay. Love that. And running a magazine, thinking about working in journalism, I love all those things. And I can see how all of that would lead you to doing writing. So tell us a little bit more about Creatrix. Tell us more about how you discovered walking and writing and all the things that you put into it, and a bit more about it in general.

Claire Winter 00:04:25 - 00:06:22
So after I sold my magazines, I sold my first business, I was still writing national content. So Families, there are 32 magazines across the UK, so I was still writing national content for them but then I also went into coaching people on how to create their own content and how to get their message out in the world. I launched my own podcast as well, which was called Cracking Content that was award winning, 10,000 downloads. It did really well. So I was in this sort of content marketing space, and as many people who work doing the things they love, you sort of run out of joy, which is hence why I'm here. You run out of the thing that you love. Doing becomes a chore. Writing became something that I started to struggle with, I think also unbeknownst to me, I was experiencing perimenopausal symptoms quite early on. So there was this kind of brain fog, lack of motivation, being very much in front of my desk, losing love with writing and creating and I found that walking really, really helped me get back into the groove. I'd also retrained to be a Nordic walking instructor, so I also led classes in that. That was part of my mission, to get out after I sold my magazine. So I was working, doing the content creation, teaching other people how to do it, running my podcast, and then I found that the walking and the writing kind of just really helped. And we know many famous authors and philosophers love walking, so it felt like a really niche, but interesting thing to explore.

Beth Stallwood 00:06:22 - 00:06:54
Yeah, I'm going to go back just a little bit because you talked about doing the things you love and running out of joy and everyone I speak to assumes there's a really simple formula, that there's like the perfect job or the perfect thing. And if you see all these Instagram influencers, just follow your bliss, and you'll never have to work a day, and you'll have all this joy, and you'll make millions if you just follow it all. But actually, the formula isn't that simple. You can fall out of love with the thing that you love the most when it becomes the thing you have to do for work.

Claire Winter 00:06:54 - 00:08:31
Yeah, exactly. I think you nailed it. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, and I loved actually doing the magazine because it fulfilled a lot of different needs. It was really busy and actually, one of the goals I had was to sell it to two people because it was a lot of work. And actually, they’ve bought another magazine. They do West London and Berkshire, which is where I still live. So that was a goal well achieved that I was like, you know, this is a busy, busy, busy job, and I'm really glad that two people have taken it on from me. So superhero status that we feel like we need to achieve. And I just thought, there's got to be a better way and I wanted people to fall back in love with writing, nature, connection and walking really, really helped me when my children were small. There wasn't a lot of things. I mean, I had twins, and like I said, a four year old, so going out for walks with them, taking them outside and to roll around in puddles and stuff was something that was easily achievable, whereas lots of other things weren't. I just wanted to bring that simple joy back. I feel like it's like anti AI in a way, you know, you get out in nature, you connect to your creativity and get inspired, and it's getting in touch with that. Your inner guides, your inner spirit, your inner creativity that is solely yours, that isn't generated by an algorithm or hasn't scraped the Internet from billions of ideas.

Beth Stallwood 00:08:33 - 00:08:58
It's so interesting. You're the first person I've ever spoken to that has said the words to me - I decided to train as a Nordic walking instructor, and I love hearing about this stuff. So tell me what Nordic walking actually is so that I can get my head around it and kind of envisage what this really is.

Claire Winter 00:08:58 - 00:11:06
So it was something that I did as a hobby and decided to do alongside what I was doing. So as you can see, I like a side hustle. I get bored easily, I need new things and this was the newest. It's not the new thing now, but it was the new thing. So it was, how am I going to get out? I'll retrain to do Nordic walking and it is what skiers use as summer training. So you use poles to propel yourself. It's actually really, really good for you as well. You use like 80% of your muscles. It's not running. It's not hard on your joints. You do look ridiculous. They don't anymore, actually. But when I used to do it, they'd be like, where are your skis? You see, I think because of lockdowns and things, people, you see more people walking with poles. They tend to be trekking poles, but they're not Nordic walking poles. So I did that alongside. There is method to the madness, the evolving nature of what I decided to do. And that's how I sort of combine the love of walking and writing and for me, it still invigorates what I do. I run, via Substack, a weekly writing circle. So we go for a walk on our own, and we meet on Zoom to write and it's really powerful because we're not writing a blog. We're not writing a book. We're writing for the joy of it. And what we have found is that most people write poetry or something quite spiritual, and everyone gets a lot out of it. It’s like an intimate circle where people share, it's not recorded. It is, at the moment, for women. I've been asked to host writing circles for men and women so that's coming in person and online, but it's just a place for people to play and explore, but also express. So sometimes we get tears, sometimes we get tears of laughter, and it's not recorded and people know they're in a safe space.

Beth Stallwood 00:11:07 - 00:12:53
That's so lovely. And I do see some people around here doing walking with poles. And now I'm wondering, are they the right poles for Nordic walking? Number one. It sounds really good fun, it sounds great and I think there is something really powerful about getting out into nature and something I always see it as, like, the antidote to the non AI stuff. It's like the antidote to being busy for the sake of it. You know, you're running a business and you were running your magazine, trying to do the job of lots of people trying to get stuff done. I have a dog, so I'm a dog walker, and sometimes that means I walk fast, and sometimes that means I walk really, really slow and get annoyed with her sniffing around. And then I'm like, actually, she's just getting information and she's appreciating the nature and the outdoor world in a way that I am not. And it makes me stop and think, hang on a minute. Take a moment, look at what's around you and see where that goes. And this is leading somewhere, because it's leading to I have some of my best ideas on my dog walks, and there's a little bit in a field up near where I walk. I'm very lucky to live in the countryside, too. There's lots and lots of fields. They're very muddy, so I usually come back absolutely filthy, which I think sometimes filthy helps as well. I don't know, something about getting muddy that reminds you you're human. But very muddily there's a bit where a field joins another three fields, so it's like a crossroad of fields. And if I've ever got a problem in my mind, I will walk up to that crossroads and the solution will come in my brain.

Claire Winter 00:12:53 - 00:12:54
There you go.

Beth Stallwood 00:12:54 - 00:13:00
And there must be some science behind that. But for me, it feels like a little bit of creative magic.

Claire Winter 00:13:00 - 00:15:18
It is creative magic and if you think about, like, even like Elizabeth Gilbert says, that there are all these ideas out in the universe if you don't choose to pluck them, I see them like, in the BFG, they look like dreams and you need these dreamcatchers to kind of capture them. And if you don't take them, someone else is going to. I feel like when you're out in nature, they're much more attainable and achievable because you're connected back to your breath, yourself. They prescribe forest bathing in Japan, and they're starting to bring it to Europe as well. You’re literally prescribed for your mental health and your physical health to go and hang out in some woodlands and that is a very slow process. That's connecting to the wood and the forest with all of your senses and that's certainly something I bring into the writing exercises I do with people. We do sensory writing to get in touch with our bodies and our creative selves. I always say, if anyone listens to this and goes out for a walk and writes something beautiful then I'm a happy person, To go out disconnected from media, even though I love podcasts, don't always listen or multitask or make calls. We make busy a very important thing, don't we? Like, you've got to be doing multiple things at the same time. And the other thing, I've got a dog as well and I try and at least once a week to walk without it, get someone else to do that job in my house. So I've got time completely on my own and time to sit under a tree and think about life and sometimes I bring my notebook or I come back and write and one of the things that we've done really successfully on the retreats that I've held is actually sitting in woodlands writing. And there's a moment I'll never forget where a lady was sitting writing and this tiny baby deer, you know, just came up and because we were being so quiet, you know, was probably like five foot away from her. And, you know, moments like that are just really, really magical and we definitely did hug some trees as well, so tree huggers definitely allowed.

Beth Stallwood 00:15:21 - 00:15:46
I actually quite like hugging a tree, so I'd be totally on board with this. So tell me a little bit, what is it about being out in nature that allows this creativity, that allows us to think differently, to step away? What actually happens to us when we're out there or when you're walking or when you're sitting in a forest? I'd love to know the inner workings of it all.

Claire Winter 00:15:46 - 00:17:06
Well, it's interesting, isn't it? There's a Stanford University study that says that walking boosts your creative output by around 60%. But what's interesting about that is that people were on a treadmill, but I think if you combine it with the forest bathing kind of element of that, it's actually proven to be physiologically better for you as well. So, like, you're combining the study that says that. I think it must be the cadence of walking that is activating a different part of your brain. I've done quite a deep dive into trying to find the actual explanation because I always get asked, but there isn't a specific one. People are sort of still speculating, but I think from your own personal experience, like you've described, when you take yourself away from your normal work environment and centre and ground yourself in nature, then the answers come up because you're clearing space and time. You're creating time, you're connecting back to your breathing and what's important. So I think it's like a combination for me. Like, I don't think walking on a treadmill is going to boost my creative output as much as sitting under a tree and spending time in nature.

Beth Stallwood 00:17:07 - 00:18:24
I love that idea that it's not as simple as x equals y. It's actually all of these different things, when combined, can create something that therefore feels a bit more magical, to use that word, rather than if you just do this, you can have a 60% increase, which also feels very much to me like, oh, I could get a treadmill for under my desk. You know, people have those little walking pads, and if I walked, I'll be 60% more creative and wouldn't that be great for my productivity? I am trying really hard to separate this idea of, self worth and development, about being, about productivity, and I think we've been sold a bit of an unhelpful, burnout related culture around the idea that we have to be productive all the time. It's not easy, like, trying to separate ourselves from that.But I don't know if I want to be 60% more creative just by walking. Maybe it's bigger than that and maybe it is more complicated, and maybe there is something to do with space and time and being around trees and the energy that trees bring to you. And they've done studies, haven't they, about trees, and you can actually track the energy working through a tree. So the whole tree hugging thing being seen as a madness is actually very clever.

Claire Winter 00:18:24 - 00:18:31
It is. It is. They release something called phytoncides. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Someone's going to write in.

Beth Stallwood 00:18:31 - 00:18:32
It sounds very clever. Well done.

Claire Winter 00:18:32 - 00:19:54
Thank you. And again, they boost your wellbeing. We are supposed to be outside. If you look back, like, thousands of years, the fact that we spend most of our time indoors in front of a desk is really quite a short period of time. Whereas the time we've spent out in nature and surviving and living is much, much more time. And, you know, and I love the kind of the optimists that are like, oh, AI is going to allow us to give us more time to do other things and I hope that is what happens but I also hope that people also still remember that your creativity is innate, that algorithms cannot replicate that. Like, you know, we are all born with a unique message, a unique story to tell and unique gifts to share with the world. And for me, that's what the Creatrix journey is about. It's like creating for the joy of creating, and some amazing things have come from it. It's not that it might be productive, it might boost your creative output. Someone who came on one of the retreats messaged me the other day, and her book had just gone to an editor.

Beth Stallwood 00:19:54 - 00:19:55
Oh, wow.

Claire Winter 00:19:55 - 00:20:14
So she'd mapped out her book, obviously hadn't written it in three days, but mapped out her book in three days and spent six months writing it. And you know when you hear stories like that and she said that was sparked walking barefoot in a woodland in Wales with you, you know, and that's really nice, isn't it?

Beth Stallwood 00:20:14 - 00:20:40
That's amazing. And I think it's so easy, isn't it, to kind of work out these plans for yourself and how it works for you. But actually taking it from, oh, this has worked for me, to sharing it with other people and putting it out there into kind of the big, wide world. It's not often used. I don't think I've seen anyone before who said, my thing is that I do walking and writing.

Claire Winter 00:20:40 - 00:20:41
Thank you.

Beth Stallwood 00:20:41 - 00:20:49
And I love that you put those two things together, because in my head, walking and writing don't go together because there's no way I could walk and write at the same time.

Claire Winter 00:20:49 - 00:20:50
No, you definitely can't.

Beth Stallwood 00:20:50 - 00:20:51
I can't do that.

Claire Winter 00:20:51 - 00:20:54
No, no one can. I've tried. Okay.

Beth Stallwood 00:20:54 - 00:20:59
Okay. I was thinking, is this just me? Because, like, I'm quite a bouncy walker, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce?

Claire Winter 00:21:00 - 00:22:24
No, no, they're, like, consecutive. They're consecutive. They don't happen at the same time. But that's what's been really nice. People are, writing on Zoom. The London writing salon, I don't think they're London now anymore, it's, like, global, isn't it? The writers salon meet on Zoom and write. Like, it's really powerful. But what I found is that. And of course, people who are in the writing circle don't always get out for a walk. We are all human. It's raining, we didn't go. And no one's like, right, that's it. You're out of the writing circle, you know, and sometimes I just say, why don't you walk barefoot in your garden or just, you know, just take a minute, drink a cup of tea on the doorstep, whatever it is, just to separate from normal life to creative life and creating. We're a small but steady crew, and it's something that I'd like to grow because I know that that's achievable alongside all the other things that I do. I do in person workshops, and I've done some corporate ones as well and that's something I'd like to grow, alongside people's wellbeing programs. To offer something different and be an associate rather than leading that project. Just be like, I'll come and deliver this piece. So that's something I'm growing this year.

Beth Stallwood 00:22:24 - 00:23:17
One of the things I'm really interested around is creativity and I believe, like you do, we've all got creativity inside of us. It's all, you know, we have special ideas. I work with a lot of people who are not necessarily stuck, but who have been kind of indoctrinated to the mindset that - I'm in a corporate world, my job is to do this. Creativity isn't part of it. Or have had some kind of feedback, probably when they were a child, that they weren't very creative, when what they actually meant is you're not very artistic and then suddenly creativity seems really scary to people. I'm just wondering, while I've got you here, and you're like, a creative expert in this world, how would you start to help people who are maybe stuck in some of those zones?

Claire Winter 00:23:18 - 00:26:20
Yeah, I like that a lot. And it's certainly been the experience I've had, you know, with the few hundred people who have gone through the programs and retreats and workshops and, yes, one, you're not alone. Two, it's pretty normal. If you've been in a corporate job or told when you're at school that you're rubbish at grammar or spelling or that you're not creative, that those wounds run deep, but I think it's remembering who you are and simple creative processes help. Many people in my world love things like the artist's way and even if you took one piece from that, which is morning pages, which is where you just write every day. And that is showing up for the page and just getting your thoughts out of your head and following that, going for a walk and letting your pen just write on your page. I know it sounds ridiculous, but literally, pen and paper, we're not talking typing, literally letting your creative mind have fun with the words, work through your senses, get into your body rather than your mind. I think that's one of the useful things of that cadence of walking, coming back and writing with a pen and paper. No spelling and grammar required. See what comes off of the page. One of my favourite moments was a lady who's on my retreat, and she just was like, I've just written a poem. I'm, like, 45 years old, and I've written my first poem. And it wasn't about whether it was good or bad. It was the fact she'd created it. And it was good, of course it was good. It was brilliant, but I think it's that giving ourselves permission. If you have to write it, write a permission slip. I'm allowed to be creative and have fun with it for no other reason than for the joy of creating. And I think that's the piece, isn't it? It's for the joy of it. It doesn't have to, like you said, it doesn't have to be for productivity. It's to give yourself that freedom. And, you know, just a notebook and pen. There's so many people I know never use a notebook and pen. You can have a shelf full of lovely stationery, but do you actually fill it? Do you actually write in those beautiful notebooks that someone gave you?

Beth Stallwood 00:26:20 - 00:26:28
Yeah, and I'm a massive stationary fan, and I do write in my lovely notebooks, but there are some that are just too beautiful to be written.

Claire Winter 00:26:29 - 00:26:29
I hear you on that.

Beth Stallwood 00:26:29 - 00:26:42
No, that's not the right thing, just write in them. I had one I started new this year, and I was like, it's going to start on January 1, and it's the most beautiful notebook. And it's like, right. I'm ready for you now.

Claire Winter 00:26:44 - 00:27:43
Yeah. Well, what I would say is, find your most beautiful notebook that you don't want to write in and start writing in it straight away. It doesn't have to be writing. It could be singing, it could be gardening. Like the expression of our joy and our soul and, you know, who we are as people. I've picked walking and writing as a way of igniting creativity, but there's lots of other things we can do, and they're things that call us, maybe. I was talking to someone the other day, and they're like, I'm just going to spend some time in my garden and I'm going to start growing things. Like, I've never done that. I like the idea of planting seeds and watching them grow and it sounds simple, doesn't it? But I think it's these simple acts, these simple acts of joy and creativity that, because for me, planting some flowers in your garden is an act of creativity, isn't it? You know, they're going to wake up one day and there's going to be all these beautiful blooms in your garden.

Beth Stallwood 00:27:43 - 00:28:38
Yeah and I think, you know, you talked about singing or whatever it is. Often I talk to people and I say, what did you love doing when you were a kid before the idea that you had to be a certain way or you had to get a certain thing done or you had to work or be productive came in. And so often it is things like dancing around or singing or drawing stuff, even if it doesn't have to be good. I think we get so obsessed with the idea that we have to be good at stuff because that's how in work we're awarded. Like, you have to be good at this thing that we forget that sometimes being a beginner and sometimes doing it without the need for it to be good. I have, in the last couple of years, been on a mission to just go and try stuff out. So I've done things like pottery and jewellery making and all this kind of stuff and I go in and I deliberately say it's not about whether it's good or not, it's about the process of doing it. And by doing it, it actually comes out great.

Claire Winter 00:28:39 - 00:29:36
Yes, of course and it's part of our joy and expression in life, isn't it? When you get stuck in a rut, if you do a walk every day, this thing does my husband's head in which I love doing, is making him walk in the other direction of the walk that we normally do, because some people don't like that. But it's really good for your brain to check, to change your neural pathways, to do something different. So if it is to go, you know what? I'm going to write for ten minutes each day in, and I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to sit down with a notepad and a cup of tea and just write for the joy of it. Or, like we said, sing, dance around like no one's watching because they probably aren't, you know, like, if you were doing it in your kitchen, have a mini kitchen, disco, whatever it is, just to reinvigorate and re spark what things that excite you and make you happy.

Beth Stallwood 00:29:37 - 00:29:50
I'm a great believer in the power of a 3-minute dance party in between meetings, do a dance party, shake your body out. I feel like it's a, this isn't a proper word, but I'm going to go with it - it's like re-humaning ourselves.

Claire Winter 00:29:51 - 00:29:52
Yes, I like that.

Beth Stallwood 00:29:53 - 00:29:55
Reminding ourselves we're human.

Claire Winter 00:29:55 - 00:30:16
Yeah, it is and that's that thing about being in nature for me. Walking barefoot in a forest, grounding, knowing that all the trees are interconnected and talking to each other. That if one of the trees is suffering, that they'll send more food to that tree. That's bloody amazing. Excuse my french, but that's amazing.

Beth Stallwood 00:30:16 - 00:30:45
French is allowed here. And that whole world is so good and I think for people listening, you do walking and writing, but the message is bigger than that, it is to do something that connects you with any kind of ability to be creative, anything in nature, and see how it works for you. And I'm hearing the message. It doesn't have to be long and arduous. It could be like 5 minutes.

Claire Winter 00:30:45 - 00:31:49
Absolutely. And I think it's doing things, you know, things like morning pages or like you say, the other thing that they do in their artist's way, which is brilliant, is you take yourself on an artist date. So you could say, I'm going to take myself on a joy date once a month. What am I going to do that's going to bring some joy? Or daily, what, 5-10 minute activity am I going to bring into my working day, like a mini joy date? I love the idea of just small, achievable steps into creative life and living a more creative life because we think we've got to write a novel or do something spectacular. But it doesn't have to be that. It could be writing a haiku or, you know, something fun, like just a little poem or something you share with your family or friends or just keep it for yourself.

Beth Stallwood 00:31:50 - 00:31:57
I sometimes write what I call little post-it poems, and they're a post it note which have like six lines of poetry on them. And that's it.

Claire Winter 00:31:57 - 00:32:30
I love it. But that could be something you could do every day, in between meetings. Go for a walk and write your post it poem. It's brilliant idea. I love it. It's going to be a thing. Thanks, Beth. I'm taking it.

Beth Stallwood 00:32:11 - 00:32:30
Have it, take it, take it. So I think we could talk about this for hours, but what I'd love to do, if it's okay with you, is to do you some quick fire questions. So if you're up for it, my first question for you is, what book are you currently reading?

Claire Winter 00:32:31 - 00:32:34
Oh, this is a good one. It's called Flow. It's about rivers.

Beth Stallwood 00:32:36 - 00:32:47
Love that. Number two - for you personally, what is always guaranteed to bring you a little bit of work joy?

Claire Winter 00:32:48 - 00:33:08
Going for a walk in between meetings. No, actually, can I have two? That’s one - going for a walk in between the work and helping people bring their creative ideas alive. Massive joy for me. I love seeing people get excited about what they do.

Beth Stallwood 00:33:10 - 00:33:19
This one's a bit different. What is one piece of advice that somebody has given you in your lifetime that you always find yourself comfortable coming back to?

Claire Winter 00:33:21 - 00:33:58
That's a good one. I've got a few, but the one I'm going to do because it has a sting to its tail, but it's a good one which is from my dad, who's no longer with us, but always here in spirit with me - which was Spot it, Got it. So he would be like, if there's something triggering you, and I know people love this word, if there's something triggering you, what is it in that person that is highlighting something that maybe you also have? Spot it. Got it.

Beth Stallwood 00:33:59 - 00:34:09
That reminds me of, I think it's Brene Brown, who says we judge most harshly in others the things we dislike about ourselves. And whenever I hear that, I'm like, it’s so true.

Claire Winter 00:34:09 - 00:34:39
It's so true and I think what it does is can I look at this with more compassion, because often something like that triggers us to be reactive and then it's like, oh, let me sit with this. What is it? What's it really triggering in me? And what can I look at? What's my part in this? And also it's a useful halt moment, I think. Pause.

Beth Stallwood 00:34:39 - 00:34:50
Yeah, a little pause and a little, okay, what's my judgment telling me here? And how could we not just go into blaming somebody else and thinking they're the people that are wrong?

Claire Winter 00:34:50 - 00:34:59
Yeah, exactly. And I'm not saying it's always the case. Of course it isn't. But it's a good moment to pause and reflect with compassion.

Beth Stallwood 00:35:00 - 00:35:14
Definitely. What is one super practical piece of advice that people could take, that they could go and do today, tomorrow etc, that might help them on their creative exploration journey?

Claire Winter 00:35:15 - 00:35:43
I would say what we've already discussed, you know, to try immersing yourself, going for a walk and immersing yourself in nature and coming back and writing daily, even if it's for five minutes, and see how that shifts. So commit to, walking and writing once a week and a daily post it poem or just something that you write every day.

Beth Stallwood 00:35:44 - 00:35:46
Yeah, just do it and see where it leads you.

Claire Winter 00:35:47 - 00:35:47
Just start.

Beth Stallwood 00:35:47 - 00:36:07
And sometimes I write. I don't do it every day because I'm not a very routine person. So I do it when the mood takes me and sometimes I have no idea what's coming out of my head. You can't predict it sometimes when you just write stuff. Oh, that's interesting. It's like a sideline.

Claire Winter 00:36:08 - 00:36:25
Yeah, but I. But I. But I also think it is. It's a way to develop ideas and it's also a way to move away from a busy brain. So sometimes it is just literally a brain dump, like everything that's holding you back from actually doing the productive work or the creative work.

Beth Stallwood 00:36:25 - 00:36:36
And that is a really great thing to do as well. I love a bit of a brain job. Finally, final question for me, where can people find out more about you and your work and get involved in the stuff that you do?

Claire Winter 00:36:37 - 00:36:45
Creatrixjourney.com. And we've got a free creative writing guide which you can download.

Beth Stallwood 00:36:46 - 00:37:06
We will put that in the show notes as well, so that people can click straight on through. Clare, it's been wonderful talking to you. I am now looking outside and the weather is sunny and it's dry and I'm thinking, rather than doing any more work, I might go and take the dog for a walk and then come back and see where my writing goes and just embrace it. So I'm going to go and do that now.

Claire Winter 00:37:06 - 00:37:18
And I'm going to imagine you in that crossroads and this great big, brilliant creative idea just coming from the heavens. Brilliant.

Beth Stallwood 00:37:18 - 00:39:25
Thank you so much. A huge thank you to Claire Winter for being my guest today on the WorkJoy Jam podcast. There are so many things that I love about what Claire was talking around. I'm a big believer in the power of going for a walk. I don't do the Nordic walking, I do the very average walking, but I think for me personally, that has made a massive difference to my life since I got a dog and started walking a couple of times a day. I really love that.I think being in nature does have a massive impact and that you don't have to be a big tree hugger to be able to appreciate sometimes that being away from a desk, being outside, has some powerful things that it can do for you. And if you are a tree hugger, do it. If you love it, just enjoy it. One of the things, a small thing that Claire said that's just really landed with me, is about giving yourself permission to do something just for the joy of it, not for productivity, not for having any particular purpose, just grabbing maybe a notepad and a pen and writing for the sake of it. So often we're guided in society and definitely in the workplace I know for sure, around this idea or this ideal actually, that productivity is the answer to everything and I really want to challenge that. I want to de-productise myself wherever I can and to do more things that are simply there for the joy of it and potentially anything that happens as a result of that is a wonderful byproduct rather than a deliberate plan to use that creativity or that writing or that walk for something productive.

As usual, I would love you to think of something that you're going to take away. Maybe it's an action, maybe it's some thinking, maybe it's something to go away and consider in a bit more detail. It would be great to hear what those things are and you can get in touch hello@createworkjoy.com or on any of the socials @createworkjoy. Have a great rest of your day.