Beth Stallwood 00:00:00 - 00:01:58
Well, hello. I am Beth Stallwood, the host of the WorkJoy Jam podcast. Welcome to today's episode where I am joined by Rachel Philpotts. Now, Rachel had a corporate career where she suffered with burnout and I think it's a subject that so many of us can relate to, where things seem to start going wrong, where we don't have any energy, where we don't really feel at our best, and we're not able to be our best at work. Now, Rachel spent time studying, working through, and helping to heal herself, and she now helps other people do the same thing and has written the wonderful book, the Burnout Bible. I think it's such a good conversation to think about our physical health when we are in that state of potential burnout or when we can feel ourselves being on the edge and we talk a little bit about this idea that sometimes we're just running on fumes and we know it, but we don't know what to do around it. I really hope you enjoy this conversation, I know I did. Here we go.

Welcome to the WorkJoy jam podcast. I am so delighted today to be joined by Rachel Philpotts and as usual, rather than me introducing Rachel, I always think it's really nice for our guests to introduce themselves. So, Rachel, let me hand over to you, tell our lovely audience who you are and what you do.

Rachel Philpotts 00:01:58 - 00:02:25
Thank you so much, Beth. It's really a pleasure to be here. I'm Rachel. I'm a nutritionist and a functional medicine practitioner. I specialise in stress and mental wellbeing so we help our clients utilising root cause health testing and ultra personalised health programs. I'm also an author, I wrote the Burnout Bible; How to tackle fatigue and emotional overwhelm naturally.

Beth Stallwood 00:02:25 - 00:02:49
And before we go too deeply into things, I understand what a nutritionist is and then you say things like, functional health practitioner, and I go, I'm going to need more information. I think maybe quite a lot of our audience do because I think it's a part of the health and wellbeing world that people don't understand very well. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that actually is?

Rachel Philpotts 00:02:49 - 00:03:55
Yes, of course. I do often get blank looks when I say, oh, yes, I run a functional medicine clinic and they go, what's that? So, functional medicine is essentially based on two principles. The first being, if all of our bodily systems were in balance of one another and functioning optimally, then we wouldn't see signs and symptoms of disease. The second principle is that we are all different and we're all unique. So what brings one person to burnout or anxiety or whatever health condition they've got, will be different from the next person. So burnout functional medicine brings those two principles together and really focuses on working with the individual. So it's slightly different from the traditional model which looks at treating disease and will treat everybody the same, whatever disease label they've got. We look at the individual and it's also a natural approach. So it's, how can we make dietary lifestyle changes, perhaps utilise supplements and things like that to help people to reverse their symptoms, whatever they're experiencing? Hope that makes sense.

Beth Stallwood 00:03:55 - 00:04:39
Yeah, it does. It totally does and I think it's really good to know what that's about so that I can then ask you questions that are in the right direction. And it sounds fascinating, this idea, the personalised stuff, because it's very different from how people may have experienced health previously and I do really, really want to talk about burnout when we go through because I think it's a big symptom when people don't get enough work joy that burnout can happen. I'm like, oh, let's look at how these two things and our expertise combine. But before we go into some of that stuff, because I have about a million questions in my head, I'm going to have to pick so that we're not too long, but, ok. How did you get to be a nutritionist and functional medicine specialist?

Rachel Philpotts 00:04:39 - 00:07:22
It was kind of like most people when they tell their story, I'm sure it's one of those roundabout journeys that didn't come direct. So before I became a nutritionist, I actually had a really nice commercial career. I worked in several different industries, in the financial sector, utilities, nuclear industry and even the civil service and I had variety of procurement and category management type roles. I travelled a lot. I've lived in the Netherlands for about two years of my career. I worked across the border in Germany and basically climbed that kind of corporate ladder and enjoyed relative success. The last role that I had, was working for the commercial branch of the cabinet office. So I was up and down to London most weeks. It was a really exciting job, you know, in the heart of things influencing national spending policy, preparing ministers briefings. I even represented the Crown at one point as an expert witness in a court case, which was unreal. When I think about it now, I think, wow, did I do that? And it was great and in some ways, I look back at that and think that was a really exciting time in my career. But ultimately it also led to my burnout so basically, I experienced burnout myself. I was quite poorly for six months. It was a pretty dark time in my life, but it also prompted the change so it was during that time where I was enforced to look after myself, if you like, that I discovered this concept of functional medicine and nutritional therapy, and I started to help myself and I understood first hand the impact that could have. I felt really inspired because, like most people, I'd left uni the first time, gone and done a temp job, ended up in procurement and stayed there. I actually thought this would be great if I could actually choose to do something that I actually really enjoy and feel passionate about. So I left that career and went back, retrained, immersed myself in all this nutrition science, biochemistry, all this stuff that I never thought I would get involved with and absolutely loved it. And now I'm helping people like me ten years ago to hopefully not get to that point that I got to in my career. I guess it was then wanting to help more people and seeing how effective that was. That's when I decided to write the book, basically to put as much of that information into something that was accessible to people.

Beth Stallwood 00:07:22 - 00:08:11
Amazing. It's such an interesting story, and every story is slightly different, yet you experience something that you find a solution to and then create a whole new career business out of the deep personal experience that you have had to help more people is such an interesting one. It’s a massive difference, isn't it, in terms of the career you were in to the career that you're in now? Yet so many of us do kind of do that. Go to university, get a temp job, see where it leads. You find yourself in something, and then the ability to be able to change your career and to change what you do. I speak to a lot of people who get scared that they can't step out of the things that they've done forever, but you're a great example of someone who has.

Rachel Philpotts 00:08:11 - 00:08:30
Yeah and it isn't easy and I think that, you know, it's unfortunate for me that I did have to become so unwell to kind of gain that clarity. But I think, you know, absolutely, it is possible and I think, like with anything, you always have a choice. It's just that you may not realize that sometimes.

Beth Stallwood 00:08:30 - 00:08:44
And remembering you have a choice, but the choice might be that you have to go and retrain and that takes time and investment and energy and learning a whole new topic. I mean, you said the words biochemistry and my insides went, ah, that sounds really scary.

Rachel Philpotts 00:08:45 - 00:08:50
That is your insides going, that sounds really scary.

Beth Stallwood 00:08:50 - 00:09:11
Because, like, science when I was at school was not my number one subject. I mean, that's a really polite way of putting it. I was rubbish at it. So, when I look at it now and I go, oh, you know, some of the things I might want to go and train in, and I get really scared whenever anyone mentions science. We have carried a lot of that kind of stuff with us, don't we, as we go through life?

Rachel Philpotts 00:09:12 - 00:09:55
I couldn't believe that I'm actually doing some of this. I needed to convert as well because my original degree was in law and I wanted to study this masters in nutrition. So they were like, well, you need to do a conversion course first. So it was like going back to school and they were like, right, do biology and chemistry, and then it was physiology and I was like, wow. But then I actually enjoyed it so much more now compared to them because like anything when you're studying in school, you can't quite connect the dots between what you're learning at the time to what that's going to actually mean. But then this time around, it's like, oh, okay, this time makes sense. And so it was a lot more enjoyable.

Beth Stallwood 00:09:55 - 00:10:16
Because it’s leading to the thing that you really want. Like, your goal is bigger, your purpose is bigger than, I have to pass this exam to be able to get my things, to be able to do whatever might be next. Yeah, so fascinating. I love that. What was really interesting as well was that deep sense of personal understanding that you want to help other people is such a great motivator. So working through some of that hard stuff, I can imagine.

Rachel Philpotts 00:10:17 - 00:10:52
Yeah, I absolutely think there's two elements to this. I absolutely wanted to help people and I also wanted to continue to help myself and create something where I could achieve work joy every day. Because I was creating this business, I was working for myself, which was a whole different model to what I was used to. And at the same time it was serving this higher purpose, as you said, of helping others bringing the message to a wider audience of the experience that I'd had, but also not just because I've had this experience, you should do it. Here's all this evidence as why you should do this.

Beth Stallwood 00:10:53 - 00:11:11
You've actually done the work behind that and actually, that's an interesting point, because what you talked about is doing that deeply personalised health stuff. I'm going to say health stuff, and I'll mean the whole thing you can do, but deeply personalised health stuff means what worked for you probably wouldn't work for me or might not work for somebody else.

Rachel Philpotts 00:11:11 - 00:112
Exactly. And that's the whole principle of it, you know, everyone's been on a different journey, so we need to meet that person where they're at, and their life experience will have changed, will have influenced how they've come to where they are now. And at the same time, we mentioned the word biochemistry, but actually doing some of the tests that we do helps kind of illuminate what that actually is. So for one person, it may be an imbalance in a thyroid. For another, it might be an imbalance in nutrient levels or a deficiency. Another person might be issues in the gut. And they've all got that same kind of collection of symptoms that are burnout, the fatigue, the mood. But for that individual, the root cause is different to the root cause that it was for me, and that's why it has to be personalised. There isn't this one magic wand or one size fits all.

Beth Stallwood 00:12:04 - 00:13:06
Yeah, for sure. And I think let's go on to the burnout topic while we've got there, because burnout is such a, I'm going to say, overused word. And I think there's probably also lots of different definitions of what burnout really is and I'd love to know from you, how would you define burnout to start with? And then let's go to maybe, how could we avoid getting there, because that would be a good place to go. I know that you didn't quite manage it, but you managed to recover from it. There's kind of a how do we stop getting there, and what do we do if we think we're in that zone and how can we help ourselves? Because I do believe, and I think I said this at the beginning, if you're not getting enough work joy, burnout is one of the outcomes that can happen. But I also think, actually, there are a lot of people who get loads of work joy but burnout happens as well. So it's not always because it's bad. Sometimes there's some other stuff that happens. So tell us, what's your definition of a burnout and how do we end up getting there?

Rachel Philpotts 00:13:06 - 00:14:36
So I would say that you're right, burnout is quite hard to define and certainly when I was looking for this kind of elusive definition, it wasn't easy. So most of us think of burnout as occupational exhaustion or that end state that comes from a prolonged period of chronic stress. There's one definition that describes burnout as a pervasive mental health problem in the workforce, which I quite liked as well. So lots of different definitions there, but basically, burnout is this collection of symptoms where we see fatigue, overwhelm, and also a reduced performance level as well. So I think it's really important, with burnout, we're thinking about this, a stress related mood disorder, and burnout isn't actually a medically recognised condition. So if you put burnout into the NHS website, for example, you wouldn't necessarily pop out with an answer. So then we start thinking of things like anxiety and depression, and how do we distinguish burnout from those things? And generally, the distinction is that occupational element to it. So you can become anxious and depressed because of work, but you can also become anxious and depressed because of other things, whereas burnout has definitely got this occupational driver behind it. And that's not to say that there aren't other things that are going on that are compounding the issue, but there's definitely a strong occupational element to burnout.

Beth Stallwood 00:14:36 - 00:15:00
That's really interesting, isn't it? The idea that occupationally, whether that's your work or what you're doing in work, or how what you're experiencing work is the main driver or the main element that's causing maybe the anxiety or the depression or the fatigue or the stress, the ongoing stress versus something going on in the rest of life that might be causing that.

Rachel Philpotts 00:15:00 - 00:15:37
And it might be both of those things mightn’t it? So I think that when I look back at my own experience, there was definitely a large occupational element, but then I think probably other things going on at the same time. Like we've just come out of a big house renovation project, for example, which I always forget about when I look back at that time. And I think, oh, yeah, I was dealing with that as well. So it's all these things that are going on together, isn't it? It's not all just necessarily work. And it's not just work that's stressful, but for burnout, specifically, there is a strong occupational element to it.

Beth Stallwood 00:15:37 - 00:15:52
It's so interesting as well, is that I have a firm belief that our work life and our life life are not separate things. They're all part of this bigger picture of us and we can't go, oh, well, that’s being caused at work so I just won't feel burnout symptoms when I'm at home because everything's fine.

Rachel Philpotts 00:15:53 - 00:15:59
It's that balloon. Right. I was thinking about your balloon yesterday, and I was like, oh, yeah, that's what my balloon looked like when I was burnt out.

Beth Stallwood 00:15:59 - 00:16:36
No sleep, everything causing friction, nothing quite right. It's so interesting and I think there is probably stuff out there in the world that makes us think that burnout is because everything is terrible. Like, you've got a terrible job or you've got a terrible boss, or you've got a terrible thing but I actually think burnout can be caused by more than just things being bad. So what are some of the things that you, maybe you've experienced yourself or that you see in some of your patients, or that, you know, from your research are the things that can lead us down that path?

Rachel Philpotts 00:16:36 - 00:18:48
So the common denominator is definitely stress and stress has such a far wide reaching impact on our body and the way that we are able to function but that then links in with lots of other things that are going on behind the scenes that could be causing burnout at a physical level. So, for example, we might see imbalances in brain chemistry, the chemicals that help us to focus or help us to feel happy or joy or help us to feel motivated so they can become out of balance as a result of stress. That can be one cause. We could also be looking at things like, a huge hormonal element here. So cortisol, our stress hormone, can absolutely become imbalanced as a result of burnout. Different pictures of balance occur at different stages of burnout so when we are very stressed, we often see high levels of cortisol because we're producing a lot but then when we're kind of at the end state, we might actually not be able to produce enough. So depending on whether someone's in a high cortisol state or a low cortisol state, would also determine the support that we give them. So that's one big driver. And then cascading down from that, then there are lots of other hormones in the body, like our metabolic hormones, like insulin or thyroid hormone, they can also be impacted. So if you're thinking of someone who's, like, tired, no energy in the morning, low mood, perhaps disruption in bowel movements, that could be quite, just as easily a cortisol thing as it could be a thyroid thing. So we need to be ruling some of these things out in terms of, well, which one is it, or is it both? Is there something going on with our reproductive hormones that may also be changing what's going on with the gut so that basically it could be all these different things. It's like a web, you know, in terms of understanding what. What could perhaps be driving burnout and we see common nutrient depletions, imbalances in brain chemistry, hormone dysregulation, and changes in the gut, microbiome and digestive function. These are the kind of key things we look for as standard, because we know that we're likely to find something.

Beth Stallwood 00:18:49 - 00:19:51
Somewhere in one of these is going to be something that we can help with. You know what I'm finding really fascinating, and I think a lot of this stuff is becoming more talked about, isn't it, in the well being space, and with people looking after their health. I mean, 20 years ago, no one had ever heard about a gut microbiome or cortisol or anything like that it just wasn't part of our language and these things come up. But one thing I'm finding really interesting, I'll get to my point now, is you said that one of the definitions of it is about a pervasive mental health issue. Yet all of the things we're talking about here are really physical. I'm slightly in the mind melt of, we see it as a mental health issue, but there's some physical stuff and this just goes to show, they're not separate things, aren't they? Our mental health, our physical health are not separate. We might experience them as mental health challenges, but there's something physical going on.

Rachel Philpotts 00:19:51 - 00:20:41
Yes and this is the thing, I think, with people, when people are thinking about, and I hope I'm not answering one of your next questions, but when people are thinking about the signs and symptoms to look for with burnout, most of us will just kind of think of things like changes in mood, changes in energy, changes in sleep. They're the kind of typical mood, mental health type symptoms we might look for but they might ignore the fact that they've had this recurrent cold that they can't get rid of for six weeks, and then as soon as they get rid of it, they get another one. And that's potentially a disruption in immune function because of stress. They might ignore the fact that their bowel movements have completely changed if they're female and their menstrual cycles have suddenly disappeared. You know that these are all physical signs and symptoms. This is our brain telling us, hey, turn around when possible.

Beth Stallwood 00:20:42 - 00:20:58
Do you notice that I'm not feeling great right now. A lot of people don't want to come and say, I'm feeling a bit anxious and I've got terrible bowel movements. It's not your common thing to have a chat about, is it?

Rachel Philpotts 00:20:59 - 00:21:13
And this is why people say to me, how can you recognize this in someone else? And I was like, well, there's going to definitely be a lot of things you're not going to know. So you might see someone who's kind of high functioning, but, you know, they could have all this other stuff going on behind the scenes that actually are signs of burnout, but they just don't know.

Beth Stallwood 00:21:13 - 00:21:37
And I do think we see it a lot in the worlds of work with people, the people who are most on it and getting stuff done. And you think, how on earth are they doing this and living life and getting it all done and then there's the moment where it's like, smack. And suddenly you realize that actually humans cannot function at 120% effort and energy indefinitely.

Rachel Philpotts 00:21:37 - 00:21:39
Yeah, you've just described me, Beth.

Beth Stallwood 00:21:39 - 00:22:03
Is that what you were doing? I can just imagine you, up and down to London on the train, trying to do this, trying to do that, forgetting that you've just done a massive house renovation, which is one of the most stressful things that you can do, working in a stressful job. You know, all of this stuff all comes together and what I'm imagining, and tell me if I'm wrong here is, the people that feel like they've just hit a wall and they think nothing's working anymore. That's what I imagine.

Rachel Philpotts 00:22:03 - 00:22:47
Yes and it is a very strange feeling because you literally can't function and I always say that I'm one of the lucky ones because I can. I experienced burnout as very much a depressive episode. I literally physically couldn't function but other people, they have heart attacks, they have strokes, they get early Alzheimer's. There's lots of really horrible things that come out of burnout and, you know, hospitalisations, collapses and my burnout was horrible, but I still think I'm so grateful that I just had depression. And it was horrible, horrible, horrible.

Beth Stallwood 00:22:48 - 00:23:17
It’s so interesting because one of the things that I've been reflecting on about things like burnout is, weirdly, one of the good things about the lockdown and kind of COVID-19 looking back on it, is, I think, because I had to physically stop. I was running around the country doing all kinds of stuff. I was staying away from home, and then suddenly we were home and I got better sleep. I think if I were to reflect my experience, I think it saved me from burnout.

Rachel Philpotts 00:23:17 - 00:23:35
Yeah, I think COVID saved a lot of people from burnout. I think it was like a reframe on a global scale of all the things that we thought we had to do and then when we actually couldn't do some of them, oh, actually, I don't have to do this. I can still be just as effective doing it this way.

Beth Stallwood 00:23:36 - 00:24:13
And so for me, I think, and I wonder if a lot of people have this experience maybe before they get to burnout or if they're in the early stages of it, I hadn't realised how tired I was. I was, running on fumes, but didn't know I was running on fumes and then when I got a chance to actually be at home and sleep and not do very much and not go out and not try and do a million and one things and, you know, go for a walk every day because that was the only time you were allowed outside and all of this stuff, I think I was like, oh, and my body was very grateful for it.

Rachel Philpotts 00:24:13 - 00:25:11
Yeah, I think a lot of us will think that. The phrase running on fumes is definitely something I hear a lot and use a lot in clinic as well, because I think many of us do think that we can just keep going indefinitely, and many of us think that we have to do that and I had someone say to me the other day, I haven't got a choice. Burnout would be a luxury for me. And I thought, what a weird thing to say. But I also thought that that's the person that's carried on fumes at the moment because they don't realise that actually they're going towards the cliff. And, you know, if you don't turn around once, you're over the cliff and you can't do anything then and I think that's why people think, oh stopping right now and resting would be a luxury to have and it's just a strange way of thinking actually, but if you don't, then you haven't got a choice when you've gone over the cliff, have you?.

Beth Stallwood 00:25:11 - 00:25:19
No and there is a phrase, isn't there? It's like you can choose to rest or your body will choose for you.

Rachel Philpotts 00:25:19 - 00:25:20
Exactly. Yeah.

Beth Stallwood 00:25:20 - 00:25:23
It would literally shut down.

Rachel Philpotts 00:25:23 - 00:25:40
And I think I actually did feel a bit like, oh, obviously you haven't experienced this and I don't want it for you, but I just think, oh, yeah, that is a classic thing that people say when they're in that kind of almost at it point when you think, oh, no, turn around now.

Beth Stallwood 00:25:40 - 00:27:120
Stop. Let me help you. I mean, I do think with a lot of this stuff, and I'll be really interested to know some of the things that you think we can all do that might help us either avoid getting there or if we're feeling some of those signs and symptoms, help us to slow the progress and of that particular stuff, because I think, well, from my experience, I wonder if it'd be the same from yours. The idea that you get to running on the fumes, it happens so slowly that you don't notice it until something happens. And then suddenly this is not good, this is not healthy, not where I want to be. So I'd love to know a little bit about how can we, number one, spot it and what are some of the practical things that even if we don't have a lovely functional person health expert, they don't have a Rachel at their beck and call to help them. What are some of the things we can do for ourselves? You've read the WorkJoy book, we're really big on personal responsibility for your own stuff and it doesn't mean to say that people don't need to reach out to a Rachel to get some help, because they do and we'll talk about that in a bit but what are some of the things that you see working for people who are maybe not in the best place right now?

Rachel Philpotts 00:27:12 - 00:28:52
Yeah, I think it's about starting small, isn't it? I think it's finding small, manageable things that we can do. So one of them, in my book, I talk about the mood boosting method and It's got four stages, and I think the first stage is always the priority for me and it's called Restore and it's about finding ways to offset some of this stress because what we'll find ourselves in is that, life's overwhelming. We've got a lot going on. Often some of those things we can't just delegate to somebody else or it has to happen. So how can we offset some of that because if we find ourselves go, go, go all the time, we need to find maybe five to ten minutes each day to just stop and do some active relaxation. This is the other thing, I think the self care or wellbeing industry has kind of created these ideals where we feel when we're stressed we've got to find 90 minutes in our day to go to a yoga class, or I've got to sit and meditate for an hour. And all of these things feel like another thing to do on our to do list when we're already feeling overwhelmed. So this is where I say just five minutes, five to ten minutes, that's it, and that is scientifically proven to just bring us out of that stressed state, into a relaxed state so that your body and your brain knows that you're not in survival mode at the moment. You're actually okay, and then you can carry on. And then in those five to ten minutes, it might just be reading a book or taking a bath or just sitting and doing some deep breathing or something. It doesn't have to be anything that's, like, expensive or time consuming or challenging. It can just be simple.

Beth Stallwood 00:28:52 - 00:29:22
My favourite is a three minute dance party. Stand in my office, put a big, good old tune on, and have a sing and dance around. There's something for me that, you know, when people talk about in that stress response, feeling like you're in survival mode is and the reason I specifically do singing and dancing is you don't sing and dance if you're in survival mode. Like it’s just so separate that your body goes, oh, okay, well you wouldn’t be singing and dancing if there was a bear out to get you. So okay, cool you’re fine.

Rachel Philpotts 00:29:22 - 00:30:05
Exactly and if you think back to our hunter gatherer days, when this whole response that we experience in our body is very primal and very ancient, and you've hit the nail on the head there, because when you're in survival mode, you're running. You're running from the bear or you're getting ready to fight the predator off and let's say you’ve succeed in that, the next thing you do is go back to the trail and celebrate that and that's when you're doing your dancing around the fire, so this is the thing it’s great. Singing as well activates the vagus nerve, which is the main connector between the brain and the gut. It's a brilliant signal to let us know that everything's well and normal service can resume in the body. So I love that.

Beth Stallwood 00:30:05 - 00:30:44
I didn't know that. So I have said my current hyper fixation is on things like the vagus nerve. I'm like, oh, this is really interesting and there's loads of research on how it all works, but as I said before, me and science, we're not the best of friends. So my learning has to be kind of quite practical on it but one of my favourite things to do is I run a little choir in our village with one of my friends and I can tell you now, when we walk out of choir once a month, the level of de stress is you can just feel it in the room. Like, everyone comes in after work, and then we sing and the stress is gone. Like, completely gone. It's amazing.

Rachel Philpotts 00:30:45 - 00:31:45
There's two things in that, one which I’ve just mentioned there is you're activating your vagus nerve so that's lovely, but when you sing, it basically creates vibration, which is creating what's called vagal tone and that vagal tone essentially supports good signalling between the brain and the rest of the body. So singing is great for destressing. The other element of this is a sense of community. So there's been research. We kind of always think about fight and flight, but actually, some researchers say that's very masculine in terms of the way that the kind of physiological effect is the same for male and women, but the behavioural element is different. So women actually tend to behave in what's called a tend and befriend manner rather than a fight or flight. So this is all about nurturing yourself or your offspring and also engaging or being part of that tribe, befriending others. So it's a natural way to relieve stress, to go and be part of a community and be in a group. So two things there.

Beth Stallwood 00:31:45 - 00:31:52
I love it, love it. Okay, so step one of your four steps was restore.

Rachel Philpotts 00:31:52 - 00:31:53
Yes.

Beth Stallwood 00:31:53 - 00:32:08
But restoring isn't necessarily going to hum into the distance for 3 hours or have to go on a spa day or have to take loads of time or energy or money. It can be five to ten minutes of anything that relaxes you, that brings you a bit of joy.

Rachel Philpotts 00:32:08 - 00:32:09
Totally, yeah.

Beth Stallwood 00:32:09 - 00:32:10
Brilliant.

Rachel Philpotts 00:32:10 - 00:33:49
So then once you're feeling a little bit better and in control from that perspective, then we move on to step two, which is Nourish. So this is all about helping the body. Nourishing the body and mind to function effectively during these stressful periods. So the adrenal glands where we produce our stress hormones, they need a lot of love and care. They’re producing adrenaline and cortisol which are hormones that are derived from healthy fats so things like nuts, seeds, oily fish, be great to have them in the diet. Also, the other thing that we do when we're stressed, we're depleting a lot of nutrients. So things like vitamin C, B vitamins and magnesium are really susceptible to stress, but we actually need more of them when we're stressed. So it's likely because they're kind of all the nice things like brightly coloured fruits and veg greens and nuts and seeds. I bet you if I spoke to anybody right now and said, who is stressed, and I said, is any of that in your diet? They probably go, no, and it's because you're in survival mode and cortisol is actually prompting you to reach for the nearest thing, because you just need to fuel up quick. So you're naturally fighting an uphill battle, basically, to help keep yourself nice and nourished during these stressful periods. So another quick idea for getting some of those nutrients is to make yourself a smoothie and just add that into the day. So no matter what else you're eating, no drastic changes, just kind of think about getting a smoothie, getting some of these nice fruits and veg in there, whizzing it up takes a minute, and then adding that in to sort of replenish some of these stress depleted nutrients.

Beth Stallwood 00:33:49 - 00:34:07
And I love this we're not talking about, stop all the other stuff you're eating. If you're stressed out, you are not allowed a chocolate bar. And you're like, well, no, that's not going to happen is it? Well, it's unrealistic, isn't it? It's an unrealistic expectation of yourself. But adding a smoothie in isn't a hard thing to do.

Rachel Philpotts 00:34:08 - 00:34:57
No, exactly and most of the time, a lot of these people will be skipping meals as well so to be able to kind of add a smoothie in is going to actually close that gap as well. So, you know, I used to do it myself. I'd kind of get to work, forget all about breakfast. Then it'd only be like when it got to like 1 or 2 o’clock and I’d be like yeah, I've not eaten today and then reach for the nearest thing that was nearby and usually it was a shop that would make me a nice sandwich and I'd add a chocolate bar and the crisps and everything else in with it as well. But, this is just a little bit of prep, but most of us are hybrid working now and we're at home and we could just quickly go and make a smoothie or put everything in the night before and then just whizz it up in the morning and take it with you. You know, it's portable and it's not hard either. We're trying to find things that are easy when we're stressed.

Beth Stallwood 00:34:57 - 00:35:27
And it's really interesting as well because you were listing those vitamins there, and I was like, they are vitamins that I know I don't have enough of so I actually do take those as supplements because I know for sure if I don't have enough magnesium, I will get a migraine. That is a literal link. So obviously doing it naturally and having it in your food is ideal but can I ask that question about supplements? If you can't get enough, are supplements a good thing to do?

Rachel Philpotts 00:35:27 - 00:37:38
Yes so we use nutraceuticals or supplements in clinic and we obviously dose them depending on who the person is in front of us and what their specific needs are. That being said, I can sort of broadly say that if you are highly stressed, then it may be that you need that supplemental support. So thinking about a high strength vitamin C supplement would be a good idea and split dosing that so that you have one in the morning and one in the evening, because you want to sustain that throughout a 24 hours period. You're looking for something between 501,000 milligrams, which is quite a high level and then again, B vitamins. B vitamins work in conjunction with each other. And it's absolutely something you might want to consider. Again, B vitamins are something you want to take in the morning because it can be quite stimulatory. So don't take them at night or in the afternoon because it might affect your sleep. Magnesium is the opposite so I would say for magnesium, that's a really nice one to take of an evening before bed and again, there are different forms that do different things. Magnesium glycinate tends to be one that's usually well tolerated so that could be quite nice one to have in an evening before bed. Or you mentioned migraines there. So magnesium malate is quite nice for pain if you're kind of experiencing headaches, that kind of thing, but always have in the evening. The other thing with magnesium is you can get it through the skin so if you don't want to buy supplements, the supplement industry is unregulated and you have to really be careful what you buy out there. We use clinical grade type supplements that are not necessarily available in the supermarkets. Let's say when you're looking at the supplements, just check what's in there, that it should just be the main ingredients and you don't want any other additives, look for the nasties. But what I was saying was you can get magnesium through the skin so if you are taking a bath as your restorative exercise, you could put some Epsom salts into that bath and that would be a lovely way to absorb some magnesium and relax. So again, that's inexpensive.

Beth Stallwood 00:37:38 - 00:37:50
And you just chuck it in and it's lovely. Very nice. Okay, cool. So we've thought about restoring, we thought about nourishing. What else should we be thinking about?

Rachel Philpotts 00:37:50 - 00:39:47
So the other things we should think about, my step three is called Engage and I guess this is really about engaging in some of the activities that maybe you've disengaged from as a result of feeling burnt out and also thinking about your physical activity levels. So each one of us knows what we may have disengaged from and what might make us feel better. So I'm not going to list a variety of different hobbies out there in terms of a physical activity, in terms of a physical act, in terms of incorporating physical activity, most of us know that movement in any form will help. It’s great for mental health so whether you're a yogi, a weightlifter, or a walker, then great. The main thing here is not to over exercise because exercise also produces cortisol so it will be another stressor on the system. What we quite commonly see in clinic is people coming in feeling frazzled, feeling low mood. Perhaps they've put weight on because they've been stressed. They're fighting frequent infections, and then they've signed up for a triathlon or a marathon or something, and they started to hammer the exercise and we're like, whoa, you need to stop that. It's too much and I think if the key thing here is if you exercise and you feel tired afterwards, then it's too much. So that's the key question to ask yourself. Is this exercise energizing me, or is it making me feel depleted, or is it keeping me awake at night? Have I gone out for a big run at 07:00 in the evening and now I can't sleep. So these are the clues that the exercise isn't helping you. So it's just start simple. If you're really stage three burnout, walking for 5-10 minutes is really all we're talking about here and then building yourself back up gradually so that you then start to feel the nice benefits of exercise when your body's ready to receive them.

Beth Stallwood 00:39:49 - 00:40:00
It's such a good point, because I think the general health message out there is, oh, make sure you're exercising and you get all this, but actually, if that's stressing you out even more, then that's not helping, is it?

Rachel Philpotts 00:40:00 - 00:40:05
No, exactly. Yeah. It's just adding to the load that you don't need at the moment.

Beth Stallwood 00:40:05 - 00:40:48
Such a good point. Okay, so we've got your three. I'm going to come back to my notes you can hear me flapping. So I'm not just using this as a personal coaching session, by the way. It's for everybody. I’m taking my own notes to make sure I understand. So restoring, do something that de stresses you for five or ten minutes, nourish as a basic thing, add something with some fruit and veg into a smoothie and drink it in addition to the normal stuff that you're doing, and get outside and do a walk, or do a little bit of exercise that doesn't make you feel more stressed, but makes you feel better, right?

Rachel Philpotts 00:40:48 - 00:40:49
Absolutely.

Beth Stallwood 00:40:49 - 00:40:50
What was step four?

Rachel Philpotts 00:40:51 - 00:42:41
I think you're going to like four, Beth, because it's actually quite similar to some of the things that you talk about. So step four is reframe. So this is probably a bit of deeper work for individuals, and it's not the thing that we want to tackle straight away when we're burnt out but often those limiting beliefs and that negative self talk may have contributed to where we are today, and then we might want to start, like, unpicking some of that so that we don't go back there again in the future. So it really is about thinking about what. What limiting beliefs have I got that aren't serving me, and what are the negative things that I might be saying to myself? And how can I change that language to something more positive? It's actually so interesting because I utilised this when I was reading your book and I was looking at one of your tools. I was like, that's really similar to what I say. So I have this kind of limiting belief, quick belief change system. It's very similar to what you're saying about writing some of these limiting beliefs down and then writing alternative ones down. So let’s say, for example, your limited belief is, I can't get through the day without chocolate or I can't unwind at the end of the day without wine or something that's quite light, as opposed to some of the deeper ones. You could write that on a piece of paper and fold it up, and then in a nice notebook or something you're keeping write down three other versions of that that are positive and that are more helpful for you, and then start utilising the one that's more positive. I can get through the afternoon without chocolate. I can make choices for myself. I am in control, and all these different things are more positive and then once you've created the one that resonates the most with you ripping up the old one and throwing it away so that it kind of ceremoniously goes in the bin or whatever, just get rid of it.

Beth Stallwood 00:42:41 - 00:42:43
I definitely have that. I definitely have that in my book.

Rachel Philpotts 00:42:43 - 00:42:44
You definitely do.

Beth Stallwood 00:42:44 - 00:42:49
And I think I also say somewhere you could have a ritual burning, but, you know, health and safety.

Rachel Philpotts 00:42:49 - 00:42:55
I know. I say the same thing. Yeah, I love that. Actually. One of mine went into the burner but yeah please do you know act responsibly.

Beth Stallwood 00:42:55 - 00:44:13
We don't want to be responsible for these things. What I find really interesting is, number one, the order of these things. So I love it because so often we think we need to do the reframing before we can do the other stuff and actually, you need to be in a good place to be able to do that. I always see it a lot with people who are probably, there might be other things, but probably in burnout at work and who do things like quit their job, but then find themselves in the same situation over and over again because they haven't done the work. They've quit the job because they think that's what needs to change and not done some of the other restorative work, which means they get into the same pattern over and over again. And what I find really interesting here is this, let's get you into a good place so that you can then engage in stuff, you can reframe stuff, you can look after yourself a bit better. I always think if you're in that, I love what you said about the whole kind of state of fight or flight, but actually, maybe it's different for different people, but if you are highly on edge, like, not quite relaxed zone yet wired. Maybe if you are in that zone, it's a really difficult place to make sensible decisions from.

Rachel Philpotts 00:44:13 - 00:45:40
Absolutely. You can’t, well I’m sure you can, but, it's not as easy and they may not be as effective as they would be if you were more rested and more nourished and feeling like you're able to engage in those decisions. So that's where this is the kind of order that it happened to me as well. I was poorly. I took some enforced rest. At the time I was fighting like mad to get back into this career. You know, I was repeating all these behaviours over and over again that I'd just done. I hated being off work, but I had to do it. And then I rested, and I thought, okay, because I kind of knew I was not looking after myself very well here and then when I started to look after myself, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm feeling better now. I'm starting to look after myself and feed myself nice foods and then I started engaging a bit more, and then it kind of comes to that last part where you start then doing the kind of work, and you think, actually, what on earth am I doing here? Trying to, get back to something that isn't serving me and actually, wouldn't it be better if I did this instead. But I think you're right, o many people knee jerk, and it's not, you know, it's not the right decision because actually, they were perfectly able to function in that job and it was the right thing for them to do, but something else has gone on, and then that's it. Then they've kind of thrown a grenade out of life.

Beth Stallwood 00:45:41 - 00:46:08
And the thing is, not all stress is bad for us, but that kind of chronic level of stress is the thing that if we can't ever get out of that, then that is a problem. But actually, we're designed to have stress and then to have moments of quiet and not be able to balance all of that stuff. So, I mean, I always think the idea of trying to rid yourself from stress is ridiculous because you're not in control of everything, but trying to manage stress better is where a lot of these things can come in.

Rachel Philpotts 00:46:08 - 00:46:13
And stress saves your life. At the end of the day, that's what it's there for. So we don't want to be stress free.

Beth Stallwood 00:46:14 - 00:46:16
No, because then you won't notice when problems are happening.

Rachel Philpotts 00:46:17 - 00:46:17
Exactly.

Beth Stallwood 00:46:19 - 00:46:30
You know, we're not trying to be stress free. We're trying to manage it in a way and maybe a more proactive way and maybe a better understanding of ourselves and what we need as individuals.

Rachel Philpotts 00:46:30 - 00:46:41
Totally. Awareness, for sure. And then management and offsetting it, if we can, in some way to find that balance.

Beth Stallwood 00:46:41 - 00:47:47
I would talk about it in my world, we find so many people stop doing the things that bring them joy when they're stressed out. They literally just stop doing it. They stop engaging with their friends, they stop going out for lunch, they stop spending time doing any of their hobbies, and they literally do work and life. That's it. They have nothing else involved in it. And again, trying to make good decisions, trying to look after yourself from that perspective is awful. So one of the things I just suggest to people is go and do one thing this week that brings you some joy and see where it leads you to and it's like a similar thing, you've got to find something that allows you to get in a better physical, mental state. Oh, this is so interesting but I'm really aware of time, so if it's all right with you, I'm going to bring us on to some quick fire questions. Cool. Are you ready? Don't worry, they're nothing scary. I'm not going to ask you about biochemistry or physiology or anything like that. Which muscle is connected to your, none of that, because I have no capability in that zone, therefore it wouldn't happen. So tell me, what book are you currently reading?

Rachel Philpotts 00:47:47 - 00:47:51
So I'm actually reading a couple. I'm one of those people that's reading about three or four books.

Beth Stallwood 00:47:51 - 00:47:57
That's about 70% of my guests. Everyone's like, I've got this one and this one and this one.

Rachel Philpotts 00:47:58 - 00:48:26
So from a business perspective, I'm reading this book called Profit Verse, which I absolutely love. It's a business book and it can also be a sort of applied to your own life. So I'm loving that one and then I'm also part of a book club and we're reading a book called the Hummingbird and I was going to look at the author's name and I thought, I didn't do it in advance. The Hummingbird by an Italian author.

Beth Stallwood 00:48:28 - 00:48:31
We will find the proper thing and link to it in the show notes.

Rachel Philpotts 00:48:31 - 00:48:36
But I'm enjoying it. It's quite good. So that's my nice, like, resting book.

Beth Stallwood 00:48:36 - 00:48:43
Brilliant. And for you personally, Rachel, what is always guaranteed to bring you a little bit of work joy?

Rachel Philpotts 00:48:43 - 00:49:29
We touched on this a little bit before when you said about your dancing round. So there's two things. One, the first one is my team. The team are ace and I'm really proud of them and the knowledge they've got just blows me away. So I love the fact that I'm now no longer working alone. I've got this integrated team that we're working together. That’s ace. And then I also like a good tune to motivate me if my work joy dips. So I'm a personal fan of Raw by Katy Perry. That's always good. Or Shake it Off by Taylor Swift, anything like that, just to get rid of all that stress and what I'm loving at the moment as well is it's called, you know, The Age of 17 by Stevie Nicks. So that's really good. It's not for any particular reason I just love it at the moment and I love that.

Beth Stallwood 00:49:29 - 00:49:38
I love it, love it, love it. And what always makes me smile is I always think of dogs when I listen to Shake it Off. And you know how? Because you're a dog person, aren't you? You know how when dogs have a moment of stress and then they like, shake everything out and then they're like, right, I'm over it now.

Rachel Philpotts 00:49:43 - 00:49:46
Exactly. It's gone.

Beth Stallwood 00:49:46 - 00:49:47
I’m like as humans we’ve totally forgotten to shake it out.

Rachel Philpotts 00:49:49 - 00:49:50
Be more dog.

Beth Stallwood 00:49:50 - 00:50:12
Get out of the body. Be more dog. Definitely. Okay, cool. So we obviously have been through quite a lot of practical stuff that people can do to stop themselves getting into the burnout world. But if you were to pick one practical thing that people who are listening could go and do today, tomorrow, etc, that was really easy which one thing would you recommend for them?

Rachel Philpotts 00:50:12 - 00:50:31
I would just say, eat a protein rich breakfast every day. No matter what you do, start your day with a protein rich breakfast. Your brain needs it to function and there's all this lovely mood supporting chemicals. Like I said, it doesn't have to be eggs or anything like that. You can make your smoothie protein rich. So, yeah, protein rich breakfast.

Beth Stallwood 00:50:31 - 00:50:41
And by the way, like protein rich anything is basically all that's on Instagram with recipes and stuff, isn't it? So you're not going to be short of something?

Rachel Philpotts 00:50:41 - 00:50:41
No.

Beth Stallwood 00:50:43 - 00:50:58
You will find something that will work for you. I personally love an egg, so I would go for an egg for both, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. Yeah, love that. And then finally on the quickfire questions, where can people find out more about you and your work?

Rachel Philpotts 00:50:59 - 00:51:41
Okay, so they can find out more about us on my website. So at www.re-nutrition.co.uk. There's actually some fabulous resources that will help people based on what we chatted about today. So they feature in the book so there's things like the smoothie guide. So if you're unsure how to build yourself a nice protein rich smoothie, you can download that. There's also the recipes from the Burnout Bible that you can download for free and a lovely, colourful guide. So, yeah, we've also got a burnout quiz coming at some point that's not there yet. You never know. By the time this is out, it might be out. So, yeah. Or follow us on Instagram or TikTok @re_nutrition.

Beth Stallwood 00:51:41 - 00:51:44
Excellent. And obviously buy the book if people are interested.

Rachel Philpotts 00:51:44 - 00:51:46
Yes. Thanks, Beth. That’s a good plug. Why did I not think of saying that? Yeah, the Burnout Bible.

Beth Stallwood 00:51:50 - 00:52:12
The Burnout Bible. I've got a copy right here. You've got loads of free resources so go and follow you on Instagram. What we will do is we will put all of those links into the show notes as well so people can go and click straight on through. Thank you, Rachel, it has been so lovely talking to you today. Is there anything that you wanted to say that I haven't asked you about before we finish off?

Rachel Philpotts 00:52:13 - 00:52:17
No, I think you've covered everything. Beth, I've really enjoyed our conversation. So thanks for having me.

Beth Stallwood 00:52:17 - 00:53:53
You are very welcome. Thanks for being on the WorkJoy jam. A huge thank you to Rachel for joining me on today's podcast. I am really thinking now a lot about these four areas that Rachel talked us through. First of all, the idea of starting small. I think anyone who's listened to this podcast before will know that I'm big on the idea of doing something small to help us every day. Thinking about restoring, thinking about nourishing ourselves, thinking about engaging with some of the things that actually we enjoy. And I always think that joy is the first thing that gets cancelled off our to do list when we're in that state of being overly busy. And then considering how we reframe some of our thinking, reframe some of our actions, maybe some of our habits to help us if we do feel we might be on the edge of burnout, or if we possibly can, to stop us getting there in the first place, wouldn't that be fantastic?

Thank you very much to Rachel for joining us. I know I'm taking a lot of little ideas and suggestions away with me, and as usual, I'd love you to think about what's the one thing that you might do as a result of listening to this podcast today. Thanks for listening. Do have a look at the other episodes available. There's over 75 of them now, all out there. Lots of different perspectives, lots of different experts, lots of different thinking. So do go and have a listen. You can get in touch @createworkjoy or an email at hello@createworkjoy.com.